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Post by RaysGM (Paul) on Oct 12, 2016 12:28:33 GMT -5
OK, thinking about what was said I looked at the 4 teams who would be dropped. In my opinion, there are maybe 15-20 players I would consider as being better than average. In this case I would have to agree that a draft is not the fairest way to go as the drop off after the first 5 or 6 is somewhat big. I'm not sure if the amount of salary cap money available is fairly even, since there are 5 teams who haven't updated their roster for 2017 yet, but the majority seem to have $40+M available. As of today I have the most in reserves, but I also need to draft 13 MLB players (I may be able to promote a minor leaguer or two, depending on if I feel they will be in the majors in 2017). So I would need to decide if I think I can put together a playoff team this year or keep building for the future. Having said all this, I think putting all the players from the 4 teams into FA is the fairest way to go. We're going to have a LOT of FAs then, so everyone will have to be really active because bidding is going to be fast and furious.
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Post by TwinsGM (Kaj) on Oct 12, 2016 12:57:38 GMT -5
I hate the idea of freezing players. It will only delay the issue and I would be thinking what if I could have player x but I have no way of acquiring them. It would be fully strange to have players not available.
I am in full support of Free Agency!
I will live with a draft. In doing a draft, I would suggest you draft the current contract as well instead of trying to figure out a market value. Therefore, you would be getting Paul Goldschmidt 5 year contract for $6 million and not try and reset the value based on a player ranking. Plus all options will remain as well, so if their 2016 option was used the drafting team will only have 3 options left. We were going to live with these contact prior to contraction, so nothing but the team changes. And yes, the draft order should be based on last years records.
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Post by DodgersGM (Stephen) on Oct 12, 2016 13:00:27 GMT -5
"The(Theoretic I'm open to different interpretation) problem I have with dumping into FA is that playoff teams could just grab the top two guys and wouldn't their teams become monster teams? It would be hard for the lower teams to catch up unless they just dumped a huge portion of their salary into multiple players which would hurt in the long run? Not sure, kinda just rambling and throwing stuff out there lol."
Your actually on point here. That why i floated a 1 round draft. The cream goes to the weak( full disclosure- i am near the top of that draft), which are teams with multiple needs.
Changing the values in contracts is just another anchor. SO now a guy costs 2.5 times more then an equal player? IF a team owning that guy wants to make a trade his contract cost becomes a HUGE issue. You just massively devalued the player because you made his contract cost silly compared to players at his level.. You have to keep the contracts the same- so the players are valued equally. Cost and term are very important in a cap league, because it is a bidding league concerning UFA's and UFA milb players. From the proposed $15 million to $6 million, thats $9 million a year for 5 years extra to bid on players.. That is a lot of money for a long time..
Freezing players just kicks the can of Shyte further down the road. As prospects- of which their are many, and about to many more- come on board with cheaper contracts- dollars available to bid will only become more readily available.. The number of available free agent dollars will only get worse- in 5 full seasons- their will be a massive swing towards overpaying when guys in their primes on $6 million dollar deals shake free.
OF course this deals with only MLB players- what about guys in the minors.. 160 prospects- and some should be in GREAT demand..
In the end, if we draft: the guys at the bottom are gonna come up short compared to the guys at the top of the draft.
No way round it. It is the fart in the elevator. Breathe deep, it will pass..
IF we don't draft, uber strong teams with fewer needs can just target 1 player in an open bid system. $35 million for Sale at $6 million for 5 years- yes please..
NO good solutions- just less perfect ones.
The one round draft means the weaker teams get to plug one of many holes with an elite player. The stronger teams get to add a very good player, who directly fills a need or creates a surplus from which to trade and fill that need. I view this through the prism of need. I think it is the best way to view it..
I get verbose- hence the "fart in the elevator sentence" to regain your focus..Beer me..
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Post by CardsGM (Mat) on Oct 12, 2016 13:55:11 GMT -5
What if we keep any player on a site's top 200 mlb fantasy players OUT instead? We still have a draft, 2 rounds only both non-snaked and let the market settle the rest?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 14:02:29 GMT -5
"The(Theoretic I'm open to different interpretation) problem I have with dumping into FA is that playoff teams could just grab the top two guys and wouldn't their teams become monster teams? It would be hard for the lower teams to catch up unless they just dumped a huge portion of their salary into multiple players which would hurt in the long run? Not sure, kinda just rambling and throwing stuff out there lol." Your actually on point here. That why i floated a 1 round draft. The cream goes to the weak( full disclosure- i am near the top of that draft), which are teams with multiple needs. Changing the values in contracts is just another anchor. SO now a guy costs 2.5 times more then an equal player? IF a team owning that guy wants to make a trade his contract cost becomes a HUGE issue. You just massively devalued the player because you made his contract cost silly compared to players at his level.. You have to keep the contracts the same- so the players are valued equally. Cost and term are very important in a cap league, because it is a bidding league concerning UFA's and UFA milb players. From the proposed $15 million to $6 million, thats $9 million a year for 5 years extra to bid on players.. That is a lot of money for a long time.. Freezing players just kicks the can of Shyte further down the road. As prospects- of which their are many, and about to many more- come on board with cheaper contracts- dollars available to bid will only become more readily available.. The number of available free agent dollars will only get worse- in 5 full seasons- their will be a massive swing towards overpaying when guys in their primes on $6 million dollar deals shake free. OF course this deals with only MLB players- what about guys in the minors.. 160 prospects- and some should be in GREAT demand.. In the end, if we draft: the guys at the bottom are gonna come up short compared to the guys at the top of the draft. No way round it. It is the fart in the elevator. Breathe deep, it will pass.. IF we don't draft, uber strong teams with fewer needs can just target 1 player in an open bid system. $35 million for Sale at $6 million for 5 years- yes please.. NO good solutions- just less perfect ones. The one round draft means the weaker teams get to plug one of many holes with an elite player. The stronger teams get to add a very good player, who directly fills a need or creates a surplus from which to trade and fill that need. I view this through the prism of need. I think it is the best way to view it.. I get verbose- hence the "fart in the elevator sentence" to regain your focus..Beer me.. Hahaha fart in the elevator - that's fantastic. To respond, 'filling a hole' greatly undersells how much of an advantage the teams picking first in a 1 round draft would have... a guy who nabs Goldy for just $6m/year over 5 years has done more than just 'fill a hole' - they've locked in one of the best fantasy players for 5 years at an insanely good price... that's incredibly unfair. We should not punish teams who had success in the previous year, especially not to that degree (we already give the worse teams high picks in rookie draft). While the FA method is not perfect, it at least allows players to be paid what the market dictates. If someone wants to pay Goldy $30m/year, go for it - it will definitely screw them down the road though. Also, if one or 2 teams shell out $40 million/year for a couple big name FA, that leaves a ton of good/great eligible FAs still available for the lesser teams to 'fill the holes' they have. I do agree that releasing that many minor leaguers into FA along with the MLB players could be a bad idea... that's way too many players. Maybe we think about doing a snake draft for the prospects, but releasing all MLB players into FA?? Anyways, just my 2 cents...
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Post by CardsGM (Mat) on Oct 12, 2016 15:46:02 GMT -5
Who would be in favour of releasing all major leaguers into free agency but having a reverse standings draft for the prospects? To me, this seems like a very balanced approach to making this change.
The length of the draft would be as long as needed (you can opt out anytime you can't find prospects you like more than your own or when you deem your minors roster full) and a GRACE period to adjust roster (promotions ect...) would be included so that you can sort out your roster (likely a 10 day to 14 day period).
Curious to see how much support there would be for this format, so pipe up!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 16:03:49 GMT -5
"Who would be in favour of releasing all major leaguers into free agency but having a reverse standings draft for the prospects? To me, this seems like a very balanced approach to making this change."
I think this may be the best way to go about it... I would prefer the minor leaguers be released into FA because that's the most fair option, but I don't know if it's an optimal solution to drop so many players into FA all at once... it'd be difficult to effectively bid on minor league and MLB players all at the same time
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Post by RockiesGM (Jarrod) on Oct 12, 2016 18:42:32 GMT -5
Dodgers is right, if we release all the players into free agency.. The teams at the top are going to go all out to get the 1 player or what not they need to put them over the top.. I mean honestly, I'll be going after Paul Goldschmidt and I don't care if I have to spend 35m a year to sign him.. I'll have an all-star at every single position in my batting order.
It sucks but there's no way of making everyone happy.. I'm indifferent as there are major flaws in whatever direction we go..
I would honestly just rather wait until Jan/Feb until baseball season ramps up to see if we can fill those 4 teams.. I don't think it'll be hard, it's just going to require us to wait.. yeah we may have to search for a few replacements each year.. and it'll suck.. but it may prevent a few current (good owners) from getting upset and quitting over the league structure completely changing.. Just my 2 cents, and I'm here to stay regardless..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 18:52:37 GMT -5
I agree there are flaws with releasing players into FA, but they are just say smaller than a draft. I'm fine with staying at 20 teams, but I'd prefer 16 with players going into FA. While it's true you may spend $30m to get goldy, that means I'll be free to use my cap room to sign 2 or 3 great players to boost my team
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Post by RockiesGM (Jarrod) on Oct 12, 2016 19:12:09 GMT -5
I agree there are flaws with releasing players into FA, but they are just say smaller than a draft. I'm fine with staying at 20 teams, but I'd prefer 16 with players going into FA. While it's true you may spend $30m to get goldy, that means I'll be free to use my cap room to sign 2 or 3 great players to boost my team Bring it, brotha
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 19:46:10 GMT -5
Astros comin!!!
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Post by CardsGM (Mat) on Oct 12, 2016 20:30:22 GMT -5
Dodgers is right, if we release all the players into free agency.. The teams at the top are going to go all out to get the 1 player or what not they need to put them over the top.. I mean honestly, I'll be going after Paul Goldschmidt and I don't care if I have to spend 35m a year to sign him.. I'll have an all-star at every single position in my batting order. It sucks but there's no way of making everyone happy.. I'm indifferent as there are major flaws in whatever direction we go.. I would honestly just rather wait until Jan/Feb until baseball season ramps up to see if we can fill those 4 teams.. I don't think it'll be hard, it's just going to require us to wait.. yeah we may have to search for a few replacements each year.. and it'll suck.. but it may prevent a few current (good owners) from getting upset and quitting over the league structure completely changing.. Just my 2 cents, and I'm here to stay regardless.. That's certainly still my overall preference and I think there's one new response to the rotoworld ad. The issue there is that the teams would need to be managed by others until then, and how do you regulate that through free agency opening ect..? You can't, because you're not going to outbid yourself. Also, it leaves fewer options for an incoming owner to put his or her stamp on the team. I'm fine with trying to get them filled through October/November, but mid-December, this should be a completed process whichever way it goes. My thought with 16 teams was simply to ensure we had as strong a league as possible and most of my 20 team leagues seem to have 4-5 revolving door teams, something I'd like to avoid here if we can help it!
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Post by RockiesGM (Jarrod) on Oct 12, 2016 20:41:20 GMT -5
Dodgers is right, if we release all the players into free agency.. The teams at the top are going to go all out to get the 1 player or what not they need to put them over the top.. I mean honestly, I'll be going after Paul Goldschmidt and I don't care if I have to spend 35m a year to sign him.. I'll have an all-star at every single position in my batting order. It sucks but there's no way of making everyone happy.. I'm indifferent as there are major flaws in whatever direction we go.. I would honestly just rather wait until Jan/Feb until baseball season ramps up to see if we can fill those 4 teams.. I don't think it'll be hard, it's just going to require us to wait.. yeah we may have to search for a few replacements each year.. and it'll suck.. but it may prevent a few current (good owners) from getting upset and quitting over the league structure completely changing.. Just my 2 cents, and I'm here to stay regardless.. That's certainly still my overall preference and I think there's one new response to the rotoworld ad. The issue there is that the teams would need to be managed by others until then, and how do you regulate that through free agency opening ect..? You can't, because you're not going to outbid yourself. Also, it leaves fewer options for an incoming owner to put his or her stamp on the team. I'm fine with trying to get them filled through October/November, but mid-December, this should be a completed process whichever way it goes. My thought with 16 teams was simply to ensure we had as strong a league as possible and most of my 20 team leagues seem to have 4-5 revolving door teams, something I'd like to avoid here if we can help it! Totally with you there Mat.. I'd rather have 16 good owners than, 20 with 4 revolving doors.. However, I don't want to jeopardize the future of what we have now.. it's just really a crappy position to be in.. Nothing we are going to do is going to make everyone in the league happy unless we can find a way to stick at 20. And with how bad the nationals and orioles are it's gonna be really hard. I honestly thought offering a free year (2017) would bait quite a few people into the league.. It's still early and we very well might be able to find people down the line.. I doubt it'll be by November though.. I think January is when people transition from fantasy football mode back to baseball.. I understand wanting to have everything done by then though.. I hope we can hear from the other teams soon to see what they are thinking.. I'll ask Jake (phillies) to get on and see what he's thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 10:12:52 GMT -5
I vote no, but with a few caveats.
The first and main one is that I am not the one having to recruit new owners so I get where you guys are coming from when you dont want to have to fill the spots (I do it for another league I help run and its a pain). In my opinion the deeper a league the better. It makes it more difficult and you have to be more creative and take calculated risks because the talent pool is more spread out. If we could keep 20 teams that would be my strong preference.
The second is that I am ok with doing a contraction even though I voted no. If you guys deem it necessary for the health of the league then I will support it. You just asked for a vote so I am giving mine, but I am cool either way.
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Post by MarinersGM (Kenji) on Oct 13, 2016 10:56:09 GMT -5
FA just seems like a lose-lose situation to lower ranked teams. Either your making weaker teams pay extreme highs or giving higher ranked teams a huge (RIGHT NOW) advantage. Rockies basically just confirmed my fears (Thanks for being honest, this actually greatly helps in this discussion). This should make higher ranked teams SUPER happy because you get the chance on great players, or ruin other teams salaries. For a snake draft, I don't think the advantage is as huge as people are making it out to be. Just comparing the Rockies team to one lower in the standings, one of those guys will probably make the team able to compete with him, but even then he would still have the advantage. (Sorry to be picking on you, its because your the champion. Also your teams filthy) So given my hypothesis's we either screw the low ranked teams or anger the upper ranked teams because more teams are able to compete. Yes this sucks because you guys worked hard to get up there. Yes it sucks because your chances of winning our lower. But is it worth it for the betterment of the league? or should we just let the same 4-6 teams keep winning and maybe lose more people? I understand this is a dynasty league and this can and will probably happen, but this is the second year. for the first 3-4 you would think every team should have a chance to be competitive. Quite honestly if Rockies got and were able to get Goldschmidt I'd probably lose my drive to compete in this league. We would basically be looking at the champion for the next 6 years. Prospects are great and all, but were talking about guys in their prime+ who already compete at the Major League Level. Just giving an advantage on prospects who may or may not be able to compete in MLB isn't going to fix this. I'm sure there have been plenty of top ranked prospects who have gone to eventually failed. We could always redraft now that we have our solid 16 teams who we know will stick around... (I know this is unlikely just wanted to put it out there )
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