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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 15:00:15 GMT -5
Astros send:
David Paulino (prospect)
Tyler Jay (prospect)
2nd round draft pick in 2017 draft
Diamondbacks send:
Chris Sale $6m (5 Yrs) ARB(-) OPT(-)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 15:02:55 GMT -5
Agreed
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Post by CardsGM (Mat) on Nov 29, 2016 16:08:46 GMT -5
This trade is under review due to owners voicing opposition to it. It will be voted on by the league. This is the first time a trade is reviewed in this league, so please bare with us.
These are our trading rules:
B. OBJECTIONABLE TRADES AND COLLUSION:
1. Trade Objection: it is asked that you reserve objections for those trades that seem to involve Collusion or are Grossly disproportionate.
2. Claims of possible Collusion will addressed by the league as a whole in a calm and patient manner, as they are severe in nature and must be addressed for the league to move on. There will be positions made on either side, and the league will vote on whether the teams involved should remain in the league if it is agreed that Collusion likely took place by 60% of the voters (all GMs except those accused).
3. As far as the Objectionable trade is concerned, 3 complaints about a trade received by the League Commissioners within 72 hours, a poll will be posted. The poll will last 72 hours. A minimum of 12 "No - the Trade should not be allowed" votes must be received for the trade to be vetoed.
4. Although some trades may not be severe enough to be seen as objectionable, GMs may not agree that there was fair value in a trade. In such cases, if the GM wants to let that owner know, the GM is encouraged to send a private message to that GM, voicing opinion and reason in a respectful manner. This has a two-fold benefit: it keeps things private and doesn't embarrass the GM involved, and it also allows GMs to know how other GMs feel about their deal (something they can learn from in some occasions).
As per #3, we have received enough complaints to warrant a poll, therefore one will be posted and voted upon. Everyone who is not HOU or ARZ is to vote on this trade poll.
Once voted on, the result will be final and I request from the two teams involved that they respect the results.
Thanks,
Mat - CardsGM
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 16:13:20 GMT -5
... I understand if people think that a trade is unfair, but I would love to hear how this trade is collusion or is 'grossly disproportionate'. I totally understand having this in the constitution, but people need to publicly state why it's 'collusion' or 'grossly disproportionate'. I dealt 2 top 50 prospects and a 2nd round draft pick. While people can think that's not enough, I don't see how that's 'grossly disproportionate'... A little bit confused here since I've seen quite a few trades in this league that we're way, way worse. Hell, Kershaw was dealt for Ryan Zimmerman and a closer haha.
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Post by CardsGM (Mat) on Nov 29, 2016 16:22:50 GMT -5
... I understand if people think that a trade is unfair, but I would love to hear how this trade is collusion or is 'grossly disproportionate'. I totally understand having this in the constitution, but people need to publicly state why it's 'collusion' or 'grossly disproportionate'. I dealt 2 top 50 prospects and a 2nd round draft pick. While people can think that's not enough, I don't see how that's 'grossly disproportionate'... A little bit confused here since I've seen quite a few trades in this league that we're way, way worse. Hell, Kershaw was dealt for Ryan Zimmerman and a closer haha. Understand that it's always a bump when these things happen, and that's why the process is in place. We'll see how it shakes out and I'm of the mind that 99% of the time we'd all disagree with at least a portion of every trade. That's why the wording was put in as is. Want to keep the comments to a minimum, but this trade ARGUABLY does not include 2 x Top 50 prospects Tyler Jay has slipped to 5th among Twins prospects, which arguably places him outside the top 100 www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2017-minnesota-twins-top-10-prospects/#7P5xsMzsFXGls9pm.97although David Paulino is 3rd among Astros Prospects, so we'll say he is in Top 50 (or top 75 at worst) Just want to make sure the facts are out, and for the record I had no impact on the objections. Even so, it's all in the eye of the beholder, so there it is. Please vote on this and keep it a smooth and quick transition so that we can move on from here. - For the record, I was also shocked about the Kershaw deal, but heard nothing from owners, so it is what it is!  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 16:25:39 GMT -5
They were both top 50 prospects on baseball america's most recent top 100 prospect lists. Regardless of how you view them now, they are both legitimate prospects. Plus, a draft pick was involved. Again, there has to be some type of accountability here... the 3 people who allegedly complained about the trade and labeled it 'collusion' or 'grossly disproportionate' need to say why it was either of those things... otherwise, we could protest every trade just cause we don't like it...
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Post by CardsGM (Mat) on Nov 29, 2016 16:28:21 GMT -5
They were both top 50 prospects on baseball america's most recent top 100 prospect lists. Regardless of how you view them now, they are both legitimate prospects. Plus, a draft pick was involved. Again, there has to be some type of accountability here... the 3 people who allegedly complained about the trade and labeled it 'collusion' or 'grossly disproportionate' need to say why it was either of those things... otherwise, we could protest every trade just cause we don't like it... I understand your frustration Ryan, I really do, but that's why the process is there. Let's just play it out and see how it comes through. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 16:30:35 GMT -5
I'm frustrated because the trade was objected and a poll has been put up without anyone discussing it... that's insane. Why aren't we discussing this BEFORE voting on it? It seems incredibly backwards to discuss the issue after it's already been voted on...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 16:34:55 GMT -5
@cards - There have been 4 owners who have logged onto ProBoards since I posted the trade in the completed trades section. If you didn't object, are you saying that the other 3 owners who logged in all messaged you and said that the trade was 'collusion' or 'grossly disproportionate'? Seems kind of crazy that the only other 3 owners who have logged on since the trade went final all messaged you and said that it was collusion or grossly disproportionate...
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Post by RockiesGM (Jarrod) on Nov 29, 2016 16:42:37 GMT -5
I'm frustrated because the trade was objected and a poll has been put up without anyone discussing it... that's insane. Why aren't we discussing this BEFORE voting on it? It seems incredibly backwards to discuss the issue after it's already been voted on... Ryan, Take a step back and take a breath man, the process is in the consitution and has been spelled out since day 1. The process is in place to prevent the competitive balance of the league in tact. If there is nothing like that in place, I've seen fantasy dynasty leagues destroyed within 2 years. if there is 12 owners here that feel the trade is veto able then I'd have to think there is an issue with it. There's been what, a hundred trades that have went through without an issue? As Mat said above Tyler Jay probably isn't a top 100 prospect anymore. Paulino is yes. again, everyone here is a pretty informed owner and the process will play out. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 16:46:52 GMT -5
I understand why this is in the constitution - makes total sense. It's there to prevent 'collusion' (this trade is in no way, shape or form collusion) or 'GROSSLY disproportionate' trades. You can say a trade is in one owner's favor, but to say it's GROSSLY disproportionate is a stretch. However, I understand people think and feel differently. All I'm asking is we discuss this and objectors explain why the trade is in collusion or grossly disproportionate (an owner simply not liking the trade is not a valid reason to object per the constitution). If we're going to vote on these things, I think it's important to discuss them rather than just throw up a poll and ask people to vote without commenting on it. I hope what I'm trying to say is making sense... sorry if it's confusing
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Post by RockiesGM (Jarrod) on Nov 29, 2016 16:54:06 GMT -5
Definitely get where you're coming from- I've been on multiple trades that have been vetoed that were titles in my favor. Yeah it's frustrating that you just got a good deal, only to come back and see there are issues with it.
I honestly don't think it's fair to call out people for objecting to a trade as that could create hostility within the league.
If it's not a big deal it'll go through no issues, if not - it'll be rejected and you guys can tinker with the deal to try and make it more fair for both sides. Dbacks has been in the league for a short time and maybe hasn't seen the type of value that big time players have went for in the past.
Anyways, that's all I'm going to say on the matter, as I don't want to get totally wrapped up in it lol.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 22:48:19 GMT -5
If it's not a big deal it'll go through no issues, if not - it'll be rejected and you guys can tinker with the deal to try and make it more fair for both sides. Dbacks has been in the league for a short time and maybe hasn't seen the type of value that big time players have went for in the past. This. |
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Post by GiantsGM (Adam) on Nov 29, 2016 23:09:17 GMT -5
Hey, so I dont have any comments yet on the trade, but I will say I did not get Kershaw for Zimmerman and a closer, lol. Right now, it doesn't look like much of a trade, but it was maikel franco, kevin pillar, david robertson, and mondesi jr. In my defense, she proposed the trade to me... =/
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Post by CardsGM (Mat) on Nov 30, 2016 5:05:51 GMT -5
Hey, so I dont have any comments yet on the trade, but I will say I did not get Kershaw for Zimmerman and a closer, lol. Right now, it doesn't look like much of a trade, but it was maikel franco, kevin pillar, david robertson, and mondesi jr. In my defense, she proposed the trade to me... =/ Agree Adam, there was a lot more meat to your deal for sure and 0 objections came up, so it shows maturity in the league! |
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