|
|
Post by RockiesGM (Jarrod) on Aug 20, 2017 14:47:25 GMT -5
Just a thought, but I'm not a fan that Total Bases does not include BB, into the total of total bases.. Which blows my mind because a walk is essentially as good as a single..
I also believe SB's should count as a total base.
So after looking through some fantrax stuff there is a few different categories for total bases.
1) Total Bases + BBs
2) Total Bases + BBs + HBPs
3) Revised Total Bases - I'm not exactly sure what this one is, or if you can customize it to your liking..
I'd be in favor of any of the above categories, especially #3 if we could somehow include BB/HBP/SB..
But above all, I'm in favor of adding in BBs to TB.
Obviously I'm not asking for a change right now, but just wanted to bring it up to get some conversation going.
|
|
|
|
Post by TwinsGM (Kaj) on Aug 20, 2017 18:14:06 GMT -5
I agree I dislike that Total Bases doesn't include BBs nor HBPs. However, I don't believe it should include SBs because they are already counted in another category. I don't believe Revised Total Bases (RTB) is a great idea. It doesn't include HRs * 4 and only includes BBs. Right from Fantrax the RTB calculation is (Singles + (2 * Doubles) + (3 * Triples) + Walks). So, that being said I am in favor of TB+BB+HBP or number 2 from Jarrod list.
|
|
|
|
Post by RockiesGM (Jarrod) on Aug 20, 2017 18:34:05 GMT -5
I agree I dislike that Total Bases doesn't include BBs nor HBPs. However, I don't believe it should include SBs because they are already counted in another category. I don't believe Revised Total Bases (RTB) is a great idea. It doesn't include HRs * 4 and only includes BBs. Right from Fantrax the RTB calculation is (Singles + (2 * Doubles) + (3 * Triples) + Walks). So, that being said I am in favor of TB+BB+HBP or number 2 from Jarrod list. Valid point, Kaj.. After pointing that out, I think you're probably right keeping it out since it has it's own dedicated category already. Cool, thanks for the Revised TB description, I couldn't find it earlier.. that looks like garbage. Yeah, #2 looks good. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 20:22:49 GMT -5
Agreed with Jarrod and Kaj - walks should 100% be included in TB. I think that's something we should vote on in the offseason. Great suggestion Jarrod!
|
|
|
|
Post by GiantsGM (Adam) on Aug 20, 2017 22:34:26 GMT -5
Yep, agreed with Kaj - if SB is it's own category, lets leave it out of TB, or else it'll have too much influence imo. Other than that, I think it's fine to include BBs into the TB category.
I hesitate to include HBP as that is more due to the pitcher, and less the hitter. What is an argument for including that into the category as well? As I said before, while some hitters have a knack for getting hit, for the most part, it is due to a poor pitch rather than something the batter did himself. because of that i think we do not include it into the total, but its a small amount so it's probably not a huge deal.. just my gut reaction to including hbps (even though I was that kid in little league... getting beaned by just about every pitcher we faced).
|
|
|
|
Post by RockiesGM (Jarrod) on Aug 21, 2017 7:13:31 GMT -5
Yep, agreed with Kaj - if SB is it's own category, lets leave it out of TB, or else it'll have too much influence imo. Other than that, I think it's fine to include BBs into the TB category. I hesitate to include HBP as that is more due to the pitcher, and less the hitter. What is an argument for including that into the category as well? As I said before, while some hitters have a knack for getting hit, for the most part, it is due to a poor pitch rather than something the batter did himself. because of that i think we do not include it into the total, but its a small amount so it's probably not a huge deal.. just my gut reaction to including hbps (even though I was that kid in little league... getting beaned by just about every pitcher we faced). Playing devil's advocate.. isn't a HBP just about as good as a single? They both end up at the same place. A walk could also be entirely because of poor pitches as well.. Like you said it doesn't happen a whole lot so it'll be less influencing then walks, etc. In my mind getting to first base by single, walk, HBP is all the same to me.. Just get there  Getting to 1B by whatever means possible would be getting a base, just my opinion. Either way, I'd like to see HBP included but the HBP doesn't matter a whole lot to me.. Adam brings up some valid points. Would definitely like to at least see BB's included.. I want everyone to be happy with what we choose, because a scoring cat change is a big deal. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 7:53:53 GMT -5
These are just my thoughts:
Total bases mirrors slugging percentage/driving the ball for extra bases. SLG % formula is the # of total bases / at bats. With walks NOT being a part of TB. If you're wanting to capture the money ball theory in "a walk is as good as a hit", on base percentage is what you're looking for- as the formula is (Hits + walks + HBP) / (at bats + hits + walks + HBP).
OBP is the new average in my opinion. From all the behind the scenes info I hear on MLB GMs, batting average is nom-existent. I know this one is a little harder, because batting average has been, in the past, a key category, but I'd rather move with the trend of replacing batting average with OBP. If MLB execs truly don't value it- I don't think we should. Just my opinion.
I think you mix SLG % and OBP by adding walks into total bases.
I'm all for some category changes, but more for 86ing batting average.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 8:20:58 GMT -5
I agree that OBP is better than avg, but unfortunately teams have been built with avg in mind (I know mine has). As a result, I don't think it's fair to swap out a category as big as that at this point
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 8:26:42 GMT -5
I agree that OBP is better than avg, but unfortunately teams have been built with avg in mind (I know mine has). As a result, I don't think it's fair to swap out a category as big as that at this point Although I for the most part agree that BB should be added as a total base, I think some teams are probably not built to add it. There are obviously going to be some players that draw more walks (Joey Votto) and it will widen the gap in haves/have nots in our league on the hitting side. |
|
|
|
Post by RockiesGM (Jarrod) on Aug 21, 2017 9:03:31 GMT -5
I agree that OBP is better than avg, but unfortunately teams have been built with avg in mind (I know mine has). As a result, I don't think it's fair to swap out a category as big as that at this point Agreed, that's a huge change to completely swap out categories.. I don't think that's something we can do right now. Adding walks into TB, is a pretty small change in the grand scheme of things.. For example- My teams total of TB's right now is 2254.. Adding up the walks from my main starting lineup I'd have a total of 425BB's.. If my calculations are right BB's would account for about 15.8% of my total bases.. Obviously this is going to vary team by team; however, I'd imagine the numbers are all going to be pretty close. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 9:57:10 GMT -5
I agree that OBP is better than avg, but unfortunately teams have been built with avg in mind (I know mine has). As a result, I don't think it's fair to swap out a category as big as that at this point Agreed, that's a huge change to completely swap out categories.. I don't think that's something we can do right now. Adding walks into TB, is a pretty small change in the grand scheme of things.. For example- My teams total of TB's right now is 2254.. Adding up the walks from my main starting lineup I'd have a total of 425BB's.. If my calculations are right BB's would account for about 15.8% of my total bases.. Obviously this is going to vary team by team; however, I'd imagine the numbers are all going to be pretty close. Definitely closer than the category change impact. It's most likely negligible. I really don't care either way, I just wanted to make sure all discussion points were out there. Let's also not forget that walks are a very small part of OPS. |
|
|
|
Post by GiantsGM (Adam) on Aug 21, 2017 10:13:04 GMT -5
Yep, agreed with Kaj - if SB is it's own category, lets leave it out of TB, or else it'll have too much influence imo. Other than that, I think it's fine to include BBs into the TB category. I hesitate to include HBP as that is more due to the pitcher, and less the hitter. What is an argument for including that into the category as well? As I said before, while some hitters have a knack for getting hit, for the most part, it is due to a poor pitch rather than something the batter did himself. because of that i think we do not include it into the total, but its a small amount so it's probably not a huge deal.. just my gut reaction to including hbps (even though I was that kid in little league... getting beaned by just about every pitcher we faced). Playing devil's advocate.. isn't a HBP just about as good as a single? They both end up at the same place. A walk could also be entirely because of poor pitches as well.. Like you said it doesn't happen a whole lot so it'll be less influencing then walks, etc. In my mind getting to first base by single, walk, HBP is all the same to me.. Just get there Getting to 1B by whatever means possible would be getting a base, just my opinion. Either way, I'd like to see HBP included but the HBP doesn't matter a whole lot to me.. Adam brings up some valid points. Would definitely like to at least see BB's included.. I want everyone to be happy with what we choose, because a scoring cat change is a big deal. It's almost the same, but an HBP has no chance of knocking in a guy from second or third, no chance for runner to go 1st to 3rd, etc. For the batter it is the same, but for the rest of the team, not quite the same. I think if we change average to OBP we can incorporate HBP and BBs into our counting stats just as well. |
|
|
|
Post by RaysGM (Paul) on Aug 21, 2017 12:15:20 GMT -5
Yes to add BBs to TB. No to everything else mentioned.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 13:19:09 GMT -5
Agree with Paul.
|
|
|
|
Post by RockiesGM (Jarrod) on Aug 21, 2017 14:02:23 GMT -5
Yes to add BBs to TB. No to everything else mentioned. Short and to the point, I like it Paul! |
|
Getting to 1B by whatever means possible would be getting a base, just my opinion. 